We DO need criticism of female characters but we also need support
And you can’t give real criticism if you’re blinded by your biases, if a character trait you’d love on a male character is a dealbreaker for a female one
If a character is never JUST a love interest or JUST there for sex appeal as a man, then spend a few minutes thinking about it before you put that label on a female character (why is Tauriel JUST a love interest for Kili instead of Kili being JUST a love interest for her?)
Accept that you’re coming from a place of bias too and figure out what those are.
1- Cap Thor and Iron Man are all much more well known, notice Hawkeye doesn’t have a movie either and there’s no word they’re planning one.
2-Where the hell has anyone fro Marvel said they don’t think a movie with Black Widow could be entertaining for any other reason than eye candy? I really doubt anyone’s said that, and if they haven’t you’re just inventing things to be offended by.
3- Seriously she’s not only been in 2 movies (Soon to be three) so far with her being treated as capable, intelligent, and not being highly eye candy (The only eye candy bits were in IM2 and amounts to her modeling past & her changing into costume). and she was treated with as much respect as the rest of the Avengers in Avengers.
I am not denying sexism is a thing that exists, but “Black widow doesnt have a movie” isn’t proof of sexism.
She’s a relatively minor character who has never been able to support her own title sales wise.
At least use characters like Spider-Woma or She-Hulk who have had titles of their own and thus have some reason to expect maybe getting a solo movie.
I’ll even take Carol Danvers since she’s got an ongoing now.
I’m not denying Black Widow is a cool character who could make a great movie, but I know so many comic characters who fit that description that if they all got movies there’d be nothing but superhero movies released every week from now until like 2021.
But she doesn’t even top the list of women in marvel, or the list of female Avengers characters, who deserve or would make a good movie.
Most (Not all, but most) of the people upset she doesn’t have her own movie yet only gave two shits about her after Avengers came out, and then are pissed off Marvel didn’t know what they wanted BEFORE they wanted.
1. Yet we’re getting an Ant-Man movie. And sure, Hank is a founding avenger, but a) if that’s a criterium where’s my Wasp movie (since Jan is you know, one of the long standing avengers and one of the best leaders they ever had) b) a ANT MAN movie. I love Scott & Hank dearly and I am really excited for the movie, but if your criteria for a sustaining superhero movie is about how well known the character is then… ANT MAN ok. ‘Nuff said.
(also I still have no idea why Hawkeye of all people was introduced in the MCU, furthermore in a Thor movie -Natasha being introduced in Iron Man? Makes complete sense- , but it’s another discussion, and I don’t necessarily think the MCU should draw all that much from comics continuity so sure, WHY NOT.)
2. Well yeah, talk about a PR mistake. However, whenever this type of discussion arise -you know the type, the “hey there’re too many white dicks on the dancefloor that should probably change” discussions- it’s uncannny how little the competency of the character isn’t discussed. There are comments on hotness, well meaning/just this side of condescending concern (HOW WILL IT EVER ATTRACT AN AUDIENCE) and all the sexist jokes in the book.
I’m not blaming Marvel entirely there. I am blaming them a whole lot, but I’m also blaming all those dudebros who help solidify the idea that movies with female protagonists are somehow not viable, that anything with women don’t sell, when they’re not busy calling every step made towards more diversity as pandering and pcness.
3. Insert the fuckyeahblackwidow post about comparative sales of past Hawkeye and BW solo series here (x). Observe how similar they are, and how still, after the Avengers made about a gazillion dollars, Black Widow doesn’t have her own series, while Hawkeye, by your own admission, not that well known, has been given all the chances to succeed (top writer, top artist). Meanwhile, where is my Black Widow book?
Point is, you may believe sexism isn’t at play here, but none of your reasons explain why there isn’t a superlady movie out yet.NONE. And while sexism isn’t all there is to it, it certainly factors in. BIG TIME.
Leaving Marvel here, why isn’t there a Wonder Woman-without a doubt the most well known superwoman, one of the most well known superheroes period- movie yet when Green Lantern was allowed to exist?
Also, fyi, about Jess (fucking avenger of my heart btw) : while she did have her own series from 77 to 83, was mostly forgotten about for 20 YEARS.
Meanwhile, Natasha has always been around: Tales of Suspense, Avengers, Daredevil, Defenders, SHIELD, Champions,etc, with quite a few of solo series in between. So yeah, she totally can “expect maybe getting a solo movie”, especially since she has been so well integrated, and written within the MCU too.
Thank you for considering Carol. No really, THANK YOU. Also, I must say I’m not quite sure why you single her out, since aside from her CM ongoing, she had her own title in the past too. TWICE EVEN (77 and 2006). Actually, Carol is probably the most high profile superlady Marvel is pushing right now, so you could do more than “even take her” wth…
Also, please let’s stop this game of pitting ladies against one another. Seriously, I love how apparently, we should satisfy ourself with one superlady movie. I don’t want Jess or Jen. I want Jess and jen and Carol and Nat and Jan and many more. And yes, we won’t get all of those, but it sure as hell doesn’t mean we should settle for just one.
What description? “A cool character who could make a great movie”, that description? Yeah, I can think of quite a few too. You can’t see it, so I’m telling you: I’m rolling my eyes so hard right now. I’ve been quite a few times actually.
Natasha is not just “cool”. She is a spy AND a superhero,a fantastic badass normal in a world of superhumans. She has this fascinating origin story that writers keep revisiting, she’s an Avenger -oh and after the movies, she sure as hell is one of the top Avengers-, she led the Avengers, she was one of the first superheroines to lead her own team (Champions), she has ties to so many characters in the MU.
Furthermore, she has already been introduced in the MCU which means the general public knows her (will be even more so with Cap 2).So really, tell me again why she wouldn’t deserve her own fucking movie.
Oh and seriously? Don’t you dare shifting the blame on fans with such blanket statements you have nothing to back with. Just don’t. You know, after seeing the drop in sales in Marvel NOW titles like JiM, Red She Hulk, even CM, I get that fandom isn’t free of blame, that it could probably do a lot more in its support.
But when you are so quick to dismiss real concerns, and the responsability of Marvel in the current state of things, you don’t get to say that.
I’d say I’m sorry for how heavy the sarcasm is at times, but I’m not.
I’m tired of the double standard makes you talk about sales and solo titles when a minor MALE character gets a movie (GoG are not exactly A list too) and no one ask that many questions. And sure, everyone has had their laugh (because /ant/ man), but you don’t nearly see the same amount of scrutiny, the same eagerness to nitpick and point to other superladies that could possibly maybe deserve it more, when they don’t stand much chance at all.